Anyone ever hear about multiple mortal probations? : r/mormon - Reddit Again, I thank you, Greg, Matt and Julie for having the courage to stand and to testify. Kevin, I know that feeling! 13:38. That being said I am personally bound by the admonition given in countless times and ways throughout scripture and most clearly in the Doctrine and Covenants 63: 64. Not once, has this doctrine pulled me away from the gospel, as many false prophets and their teachings aim to achieve. The purpose was not to claim that it is the doctrine of the Church, as we have no authority in that regard. The group is True LDS Deep Doctrines. People that I still feel the spirit about, so I have to pinch myself too, haha. We and our partners store and/or access information on a device, such as cookies and process personal data, such as unique identifiers and standard information sent by a device for personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, and audience insights, as well as to develop and improve products. Growing up in the Church, I had the same impressions as you regarding our exaltation. For example, in 1860, Orson Pratt wrote, "I heard brother Young say that Jesus had a body offlesh and bones, before he came (to earth and) he was born of the Virgin Mary, it was so contrary to every revelation given." to use samsung voice input you need to allow the appear on top permission in settings s21 Libraries. If youve not yet read Angie Fenimores book Beyond the Darkness, I highly recommend it. By We also know that there is an opposite to all things. 8 of the Most Bizarre Mormon Beliefs - Purpose in Christ The concept of "Multiple Mortal Probation" would be similar to the teaching of reincarnation, both of which are false doctrines. Richards wrote, "Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.". Especially that your own witness didnt come from a human. That just feels like a natural and eternal, and even logical principle. One must review and agree to the rules of the group, established due to a few that join just to create contention and kick against the pricks. True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days We welcome comments of all kinds on this blog and feel that people should be free to debate and discuss the topics in accordance with their personal views, so long as it is done in a courteous and respectful manner. Some say that they dont believe in do overs. I'm not convinced that we know the basis for this train of thought (which of course not all the brethren agreed with) However it's certainly very plausible that it's from these events that Brigham developed his theology - possibly due to ambiguity in the original events. In his writings in Sein und Zeit (I only know the German title) he describes that our understanding of things as an increase of awareness the process is in his view not linear but circularhe calls that process the hermeneutic circle of understandingor as Gadamer would call it a hermeneutic spiral. I love your island perspective, which I hadnt considered. The seriousness, the risk, and the glories of mortal life are undercut the moment one supposes he will have a million or more subsequent probations of the same sort. Not all probation is negative; quite often, it is merely counsel to attend the temple more, read select scriptures, or pray more frequently and fervently. ("Scriptural Items," F. D. Richards, August 27, 1843 . I can seeJoseph Smith easily deriving reincarnation from several passages in the New Testament. I feel a longing and hope that I can learn and progress for as long as I choose to without time limits. And sorry you got excommunicated! Your recent podcasts and inspired book, Multiple Probations, also shed so much light on this topic and are the sources of which I seek to learn more. I do not believe I am alone in these sentiments. Because LDS leaders sometimes refer to this life, before our death and eventual resurrection, as our "mortal probation," based on the scriptural term "probationary state," Daybell and Vallow call their belief in reincarnation "multiple mortal probations." Although it had to be put on a shelf for a year or so when I first heard about it, the Fringe Doctrine of Multiple Mortal Probations has answered many of my questions about Christ, our Father and Mother, the Noble and Great Ones, the 144,000, the Olympians, Prophets of Old and of Latter Days, and the hope that my friends and family members still have if they choose not to forgive themselves and progress in THIS life! DAY 10 | LIVE UPDATES: Alex Cox's widow says Chad and Lori Daybell I asked the spirit and he said only once before. Many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in my belief are afraid of these lost doctrines especially when they are exposed to it from news agencies that are trying to (in my opinion) to make people fear that if it doesnt come directly from the president or prophet of the church then we are being led away by false prophets. . Thanks for sharing your own experience, which is validating and comforting to know the Lord is answering many of His childrens questions! are now throwing the baby out with the bathwater in what has been deemed a It also appears to be welcomed and seriously considered among others of (I havent read everything what was posted about that themeso I am sorry if I repeat things that you already mentioned.). Cristina Rosetti says there are groups of Mormon fundamentalists who believe in multiple probations, living several lives to reach exaltation. When is lds general conference 2023 - alevex.martinis-hamburg.de And no man knoweth of his ways save it be revealed unto him; wherefore, brethren, despise not the revelations of God. Jacob 4:8. It lasted several weeks. There is always hope in Christ. Over the past few years it has been my privilege, as well as many who I know, to have naturally and individually come upon the doctrine recently called Multiple Probations. We aren't taught "Multiple Mortal Probation" in the Church because it is not true. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints official stance on multiple mortal probations (similar to reincarnation) is that is the doctrine of the devil. Multiple Mortal Probations - The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ I cant mention this topic to my family, friends, or post about it on any platform, without incredible hurtful persecution. Thank you!! Benjamin Seeker Adam After Moses had a face to face conversation with God, he had BOISE, Idaho On the ninth day of Lori Vallow Daybell's murder trial, her friend, Melanie Gibb, testified about Lori's beliefs on possession, the first time she met Chad Daybell, and more.Lori Vallow Daybell was charged with multiple counts of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. Despite the comments and quoted references that say Joseph taught reincarnation, I do not see any of his doctrine that teaches it. Apostle Lorenzo Snow said that "his sister, the late Eliza R. Snow Smith, was a firm believer in the principle of reincarnation and that she claimed to have received it from Joseph the Prophet, her husband." And what is our test score? Maybe I will need to review a few things I learned from 5th grade but I feel like it would be a waste of time to start 5th grade over again. Dangerous Doctrine? - Doctrinal Essays Multiple Mortal Probations Part II - Blogger were transfigured before him. This process answers many other gospel centered questions. Multiple Mortal Probation Archives - Latter-day Commentary JS also gave more info about this path to exaltation, which is that the Holy Ghost, the third member in the Godhead, was going to serve as a Christ. When I first heard you and Julie talk about multiple probations on a podcast I was surprised but thought: Interesting, interpretation. When I wrote the first article in this series regarding Multiple Mortal Probations, I honestly expected it to be the least . This group gives us a safe platform in which we discuss the trials, tribulations, prophecies and signs of the last dispensation of which we live in. I admire your truth seeking and truth-recognizing abilities. It is like a fractal of the whole thing. Thank you Ericfor putting what I know to be true into words. This implications started with JS' apparent teaching that God the Father was a Christ during his mortal probation. I often commented in Church Sunday School, that, to be considered Noble and Great!! Even more than that I feel that spirit of truth in my heart that it is true. their state became a state of probation, 2 Ne. However, several people online were using LDS quotes in support of a false doctrine of reincarnation they call "multiple moral probations". I was always looked at with the eyes of (Oh Brother). The LDS Church declined to comment on Snuffer or his movement, but an internal 2015 presentation to the faith's apostles (as provided by the website MormonLeaks) lists the Sandy attorney . I continue to find supporting evidence in scripture and temple ordinances. Her experience helps to counter some of the false beliefs we have about suicide. I simply found that it merited investigation. . Choose one innovative idea the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has announced in the last 10 years. I can see that in the spiritual world it goes way beyond any earthly graduate school I can imagine. And we do have to think about possibilities, because eventually it leads to more firm answers, but we needn't think that every thing we think is automatically true. He trys to plant these seeds of doubt in my heart mind and spirit..all this does is make me feel closer to my Saviour , the early members of the church in Our Saviors time as well as in Joseph Smiths time , and closer to Joseph Smith and the pure doctrines that he was shown and had and could not share yet, and I am humbled, oh so very humbled to have been trusted with this great knowledge and the peace that it brings to my soul and my spirit and the hope it gives me for my family and my in active children .. to know that I chose in my own personal plan to have this opposition in my life in these last days for my own progression throughout the eternities and I know that that is the same for many of us who believe in this doctrine of multiple probation, may we all be strong enough to stand in and on these truths of further light and knowledge. It indicates, "Click to perform a search". Come what may; I believe what I believe, and if a mans belief, though strange, is cause for punishment or ridicule from anyone, which is the greater sin? For others, it has given meaning and I like cats better. Oh, and another thing, so many on this board have mentioned how attaining Godhood is much better than living as angels and playing harpsin the clouds doing nothing. I hope and pray I will have the same courage. Eric, I do so realizing it could be the very thing that causes estrangement from my family, friends, and my church. A magnifying glass. This understanding of Multiple Probations, has validated and set my soul free of the ignorance. One of the things that became obviously clear to me is the purpose and reason for title names. Thank You Eric, Beautifully expressed! I have nothing to add but simply following the conversation. I would comment but feel it is too sacred. And like those, here, before me have mentioned, this doctrine has brought more clarity, understanding of why I went through my own experiences in this probation. How can something start from nothing? The Widow's Mite presents, an overview of Church land ownership in the USA. Lidia, hearing you received your own witness is so validating. WHY ONE of my sons and I have always said we CAME here with a testimony finally clicked and I feel so blessed because it isnt that easy for some to believe. alteration of what seems to be the once purer doctrine taught long ago. Because I do just that I have grown closer to the Savior and because I study scripture, I have more enlightenment and understanding of truth. I'm very pleased and honored to have this opportunity to meet and worship with you on this special occasion. the past has fueled our desire to serve God more diligently, and to fight I like you, have had a sure witness even as I am writting this that it is true. I feel motivated to try harder and do better. I too grew up knowing that Reincarnation was/ is a false doctrine, but also grew up in a culture that taught that those who made mistakes and took their guilt from said mistakes to their grave without repentance or forgiveness were eternally assigned to a lower Kingdom of Glory, only to be visited by friends and family members in higher kingdoms. Answered: Choose one innovative idea the Church | bartleby By . 41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; 42 That through him ALL MIGHT BE SAVED whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; 43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves ALL THE WORKS OF HIS HANDS, EXCEPT THOSE SONS OF PERDITION who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. Im grateful you shared your experience here! One example of this is the multiple scripture references to go no more out. Anyways, it soon became apparent that his fruits were not matching what I knew to be honest and true from my own scripture study, and beliefs. Praise be to God and the Lamb!! Chad Daybell's strange end-times beliefs are not Mormon theology, says He was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Or as Moroni declared, By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things (Moroni 10:5). This was part of a long prayer. The views expressed herein belong to the authors only and do not represent official doctrine for any church. Thank you for sharing your witness Cheryl! Eventually, a soul could achieve relative perfection and rise to the level of becoming a savior for others. You are obviously gifted and inspired by God. LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations. One lifetime and you are done feels like temporary progression. I'm not going to do anything drastic, but, goodness gracious! but it is necessary to know in the context of my exaltation. That is a place of their glory or what they're willing to accept. . From the above we can imply that JS believed that all Gods had served as Christs, that all heirs of the Celestial kingdom would serve as Christs as part of their progression from exaltation to exaltation, and that the Holy Ghost would also serve as a Christ. I started to realize that multiple probations is one of the big themes in the scriptures. Perhaps Im misunderstanding. Should you want a space where you can harangue, belittle, mock, and incite people to contention for their deeply held, sacred beliefs then by all means create some forums with your own rules. If they are returned then effectively this reading is denying they are resurrected at all. It taught me that accepting such information and experiences with out, knowing for my self (James 1:5) was and is a danger zone for me to be in. Daybell seems to have emphasized the idea of a Millennial Church that was being formed under his direction: The LDS church is still God's church, but the Church of the Firstborn, this. Elena, I hope you feel the sincerity of my heart when I say, I hear you! And as this literally happens, every morning is a shadow of what will be in the long term of eternity. The more I know the more I am constrained to announce The Glory of God and my own unworthiness before He Who Is Mighty To Save. mistake in my mind as to who the authors of the two variations are. Knowing myself well enough to know that I would never have agreed to such a thing knowing my own weaknesses all too well..and having been able to learn from on high many amazing things in temple service..i began to question the plan as it was being taught every sunday..my questions as a spiritually gifted woman were met mostly with disdain amidst the patriarchy and toxic perfectionism of many members through no fault of their own but through false Traditions that have been passed down and incomplete doctrines. I like your point about second chances for wayward souls. Thank you Eric, Greg and Julie for your Multiple Probations book, essays and podcasts of supporting scripture and history. See 1 Corinthians 15:40-44. We know this to be true ! God bless you, brother! Let's review multiple scriptures that allow us to see things as they really are: 1) The Plan of Happiness. One of the questions that has bothered me since I was very young is: How did it all start? It has been reported by those who knew the first prophet of the church that he was at least at one. I just dont see how being promised we can be together forever, and being reborn in another life, and probably sealed to someone else fit together. Something that has always been there but was never realized by me. I enjoyed your book very much and reading your essay just now is when I felt enveloped in the calmest, loving peace, and knowing that bore witness that this additional knowledge is indeed true. Unfortunately, the divine version of the doctrine has not, and may not soon receive the proper attention and audience it deserves. Couldnt we just come again and again until we got it right? Big Florida development project likely worth $40-80B in 30-60 years. on several counts: 'Onewhoiswatching' claims Two different 'Remnant Groups' - LDS Freedom Another point on this, it is said in the bible that men like Adam, Methuselah, and Enoch were men who became perfect in their generation. Ensign, October 2017, 64-71. There is only one truth but countless falsehoods. I realized it was up to me to ask, seek, knock, learn and apply with or without him. Thank you for sharing this. Maybe Shirly Mclaine was right. Receive ye, therefore, my law. I always look forward to your writings and know you speak truth. An offshoot of the Mormon church is drawing away members. But what does Joseph Smith and multiple mortal probations - Reincarnation Forum Also, I defer to board rules and won't discuss the specifics of the endowment, but there is a very strong implication in there that, at the very least, resurrected beings can shed their resurrected forms somehow and experience another mortal probation. Kabbalism, especially the sort in 12th century Spain that produced the Zohar and so forth is a thoroughgoing Platonic conception of Judaism. Thank you again for your testimony and to stand boldly for truth. Others feel if it were We invite you to share this with all those you know who might benefit from it. And it speaks that our destination after this life, even if we come up short of the Glory of God could not possibly be our final destination for eternity. Do you have a direct link? While belief in this doctrine is unpopular in the Christian world at this time, I would like to share some of the ways it has been a blessing to me. 104-105.) Among early Christians and LDS the doctrine of multiple mortal probations was taught. consider to be a blessed gift from God. Mahalo. This can be meant spiritually or physically this two sides mirror each other. kindness from cruelty, and so on. Peace, enlightenment, and hope are wonderful gifts. I do have a question though. The "True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days" down in Manti headed by James Harmstrom (who died in 2013), teaches or taught this doctrine along with plural marriage. Thanks for sharing! We will be free to choose to be with those we love, who also want to be with us. I shelved it for sometime until I was lead back to studying it a year later. God bless you for speaking truth. He, Only He. The answers are there if you seek them from the Lord and in His timing. As I have sought to understand my past before this life, and How does this concept coexist with the idea of eternal families? As I pondered the gravity of that situation seeing the effects of disobedience in other families and in my own I prayed asking Heavenly Father how he could let so many of His children fall and be cast off. When your book came out with Greg I was excited to read it and I did several times. I can choose to end my learning and education then or I have the agency to continue onto college and graduate school. I can only answer that through study, prayer, fasting, and a fair amount of grief, I have paid the price to know. I have been a member of the church my entire life, and it has been my life. Blessings to all seekers. When I first came upon Julies podcasts and heard the messages, including MMP. It answers many of my questions, How could a god (Lucifer) fall from grace, how could the Savior become who he was in one lifetime, how could I ever make it to the celestial kingdom if my partner wasnt willing to live the gospel. The Bible is ripe with evidence in this belief. Elder Bruce R. McConkie. I have not ever been constrained by The Spirit to speak in ways that invite others to look to me for the answers that must only come from Father. This implication is emphasized by JS' teachings on identifying angels vs. evil spirits (found in D&C), which he taught on multiple occasions, maybe 5 or 6 times, before and after the Nauvoo endowment had been administered. This thesis explains a bunch of odd data points and suggests a straightforward explanation for the origin of Adam-God. I still struggle to understand my place in the eternitys.
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