western airlines 2605 cvr western airlines 2605 cvr

The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and that of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. The most comprehensive description and analysis by far is in the December 1983 issue of Flying magazine pages 100 to 107. Other entries are my opinions as well. The impact with the truck didn't destroy the plane, it continued to fly therefore we can assume the pilots would be actively talking (or screaming) until the next impacts and the final impact and their and the plane's destruction. Other entries are my opinions as well. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . - paragraph amended at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40 and at 20:30 and 20:31 by 173.120.246.108, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contributions), Please consider the following lines from the final page of his article as it appeared in Flying. More curious is the fact that Gilbert had just written up Reichel and had a meeting with him the day of the flight although that was said to have been amicably concluded. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners Privacy Policy. His intention is to have his readers buy his premise of pilot error as the sole reason for the accident. This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. accident had to be one of human factors. . - paragraph amended at 20:36, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109. This penetration came in contact with the erasure circuit sending a momentary electrical impulse to the bulk eraser, causing a wedge- shaped segment of the tape to be erased.". A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. Pilot fatigue has also been mentioned. I emailed the gracious Mr. Valenciana and he tells me his description of the crash in his book mentions a violent initial impact. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets Well, yeah, but what if they thought the runway they had visual contact with was the correct runway, 23R? I'd like to reply to yours as well. The system was apparently adjusted soon after with help from US authorities, this around the same time the US assisted with producing explicit instructions on the "side step" manouver for Mexico presumably so pilot error won't cause another accident but also (less cynically stated) to make airtravel safer - will need to find sources for this. His logically flimsy conclusions sound authoritative only because he uses loaded terms like law and regulation. - paragraph amended at 23:09, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108, What responsibility did Western management have for the crash of 2605? Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! One new winner* is announced every week! Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. - paragraph amended at 21:05, 30 December by 173.120.131.243 and 00:00, 31 December 2019 by 173.120.182.80 (unsigned contributions), Bordering on the fantastic Eduardo claims the Mexican police kidnapped him and were trying to force him to sign confessions or affidavits stating the pilots were drunk on liquor he had served them during the flight. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters There was still a major section of the plane sitting there that had burned. The sound and tone of his exclamation is one of complete shock. Even sadder is the fact that all four of those major air Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks The separation also caused an electrical power failure, critically affecting cockpit indicators. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR DisasterOnline 12.6K subscribers Subscribe 2K 219K views 8 years ago The voice recorder of Western Airlines flight 2605, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, that crashed. The aircraft continued flying just clear of the ground near taxiway Alpha.". The most common CVR excerpt begins at landing on 23L where Gilbert is asking if "we're clear on the right?". The sites we usually use for research won't say more than the above. Cookie Notice On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10,. So the CVR may in fact be missing details. ", - section created at 20:44, 30 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.131.243, Eduardo Valenciana has written a book containing a fair amount of material dedicated to the flight and the events of the crash: " Jumpseat, A Tale of Twisted Fate". AR385. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Walsh (?) On top of all this, the One wing clearly had more lift than the other. In addition, he was having enough of a problem The aircraft speed decreased from 136 knots to 128 knots. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. In less than 10 years Western Airlines would no longer exist. Perhaps they were sloppily dressed? A notable comparison aircraft in the era of the DC-10-10 was the competing L1011 plane. Western 2605 was a crash in Mexico City that killed 72 people. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Actress Carole Lombard won a coin toss against her mother and Clark Gable's press agent Otto Winkler when deciding whether they would fly or go by train back to LA. However it is the content of the article that readers should focus on. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air BY AR385 - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am #10741679. The tower tapes to this day have never been released. disasters had to occur and that all of the investigations lack . so they thought they were flying their cleared approach? American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. Do we know this is correct? In addition to airline bankruptcies, and industry consolidation, the Airline Deregulation Act meant open war on airline labor including pilots although it is rarely described this way. Is this necessary? This is all over youtube for example in a number of videos. Population: 6,630 People By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. . Aircraft type McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator Western AirlinesRegistration N903WAFlight origin Los Angeles Int'l AirportLos Angeles, California, United St. The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus . Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. Western Airlines Flight 2605 19 Reply kapotchaboii 1 yr. ago Airplane lands accidantaly on the wrong runway half in the grass, half in the shoulder, try to power up the engines for a new try. Why was the construction contractor permitted to have equipment all over (or along the side of) the runway with the ILS system? The reason he feels this way was because of the potential for damaging political and economic fallout. The final moments of the pilots will make your hair stand on end. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. I'd like to reply to yours as well. Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. The CVR was damaged, see below. Flying Magazine discredits the ALPA report. - paragraph added at 17:40 + amended at 17:43 and 17:46, 24 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.148.69, and 23:37, 30 November (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238, and 01:17 and 03:22, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.15.41, Would touching down (2 g) on the left wheels have elicited such an ominous outcry? ATC: Can you see the approach light to the left? Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft What time is it in Saint-Ismier? - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:37, 30 November + amended (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 01:33, 1 December 2019, In order to have a satisfactory answer to this question the first crashing sound in the cockpit needs to be definitively either the touchdown of the left wheels or a collision with the truck. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The final moments of the pilots will make your hair stand on end. The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. Our large helicopter section. long work days or from shift changes. It ought to be (if at all possible). Page contents not supported in other languages. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. done flyin'." The CVR is described as sustaining damage in this report, DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making -Cockpit Resource Management": "The voice recorder was recovered from the wreckage; however, the unit had been pierced. Flight 2605's "hydraulic systems" - as far as this contributor is aware - are not discussed in any crash analysis or publication. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident to occur on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. It's pilots loved the plane. 68 people died in that crash. His flight manager had promised to RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. Things moved very quickly. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air their compatability. Is the earlier contributer, above, right tht there was disagreement in the cockpit? We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Gilbert probably knows (his hands on the yoke?) I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. Directives, training have addressed problems over the years so a conclusion that can be assumed is "safety has improved" in this regard. (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. on this tragedy: I think there's a CVR on Airdisaster.com. It is like this crash never happened. Include these with the other problems he would On the other. Another piece of frustration. ground and simultaneously struck i dump truck loaded with gravel. - paragraph added at 15:33, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124, From the publication DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making - Cockpit Resource Management" investigator observations within 24 hours of the accident: - paragraph added at 22:43 (and amended 22:44 and 22:45 x2), 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, "Main electrical wires to the approach lighting system and VAst for 23 left were observed to be disconnected. 1979 was the planes deadliest year. that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as, You can find the CVR tapes on airdisaster.com. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Might be good to add that detail. Those locks prevent an unbalanced aerodynamic condition in which one wing has more lift than the other. control. Acheter. Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. Pilot error but more directly false ILS signal phenomenon. Flying Magazine is not a credible source. check out the. We haven't read this conclusion in any of the reports because no one has access to ILS signaling after the fact, at least in this contributors understanding of what data was recorded in air operations so unfortunately this is speculation based on what happened. (Ironically the poorly designed cargo door was not immediately changed.). This page was generated at 03:03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernes_Flight_2605, http://aviation-safety.net/database/?id=19791031-0, http://books.google.com/books?id=8BVpage&q&f=false, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fod.main/130485/, http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=57025, http://web.archive.org/web/200910220/blackbox.html, http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/-tapes-cd.html, http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/accident/N903WA.html, If this is your first visit, be sure to I replied to one post below that had the time of day wrong concerning the accident. port and the hassle he usually received from the air traffic (?) The plane just went all the way through to the closed runway. All times are GMT. The damage sustained by the aircraft after impact with the truck was such that continued control flight was not possible. "ALPA's purpose in large part was to exonerate the crew", "ALPA's attempt to identify causes highlights the mobility of that shapeless fluid thing called "blame". crew was fatigued from flying all night, landing at 0542." Was it likely that they didn't have the resources to take safety in to account? Norton Air Force Base, this time period typifies the normal reaction time of Your destination for buying luxury property in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France. According to the ICAO circular, max power was applied prior to collision with the truck. This is presumably the point he is yelling "Jesus Christ!" has he? Presumably the incident that FA Valenciana wrote about in his book (incidently changing the names of the pilots which is probably for legal reasons but not so much that you don't know who he is talking about) where Gilbert is yelling at Reichel would be captured with context by the CVR. on it, except than the official one. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Here's an author who unconvincingly defines ALPA's purpose. ATC: "O.K., sir, approach lights are on the runway 23 left, but that runway is closed to traffic.". Privacy Policy. - Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management. The Originals Boutique, Htel Les Trois Roses, Grenoble Meyla. Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents Consider the following: Western Airlines knew its pilots had landed on the "wrong" runway previously, or they should have, as did Mexican authorities. I remember flying into that airport a couple months later. percent. the flight path in reaction to the unstable localizer course." Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships The inducement of the The US allowed Mexico to lead their official investigation into the accident. He has suggested an international cover up. Here is an excerpt from the "Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management" report describing the flight data recorder findings: There's no indication they are having a disagreement of any kind during the landing phase or minutes before it. for about 400 feet on the main landing gear. A world wide price increase in oil occurred in 1979 mostly because of reduced supply as a result of the Iranian revolution that doubled the price of crude oil. comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes Key details are the same: 23L was closed, 23R was the open runway with a NOTAM many days before. The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos For more information, please see our The challenge is being able to discriminate and select what else could be added. He was defending his company by blaming the pilots. On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport in early morning fog after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. Theyd have no obvious warning tht 23R was in front of them but hidden. By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. 32 Avenue Du Gresivaudan, Meylan, Isere, 38700. (Did they know where they were more specifically?) that all is lost after the right tail plane and elevator were nearly severed along with the loss of the upper right hand section of wing flaps. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. As a consequence, they will not be dealt with; they or profound horror - perhaps with a terrible awareness of the fate of the plane. involved in all four, contributing to two accidents as deter Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. If anyone is familiar with this accident, you'll understand why I'm so curious about it. Pilot Gilbert got on the power (100%) before the impact with the truck and after Reichel calmly called to go around after everyone agreed they were at 23L. 7 years ago (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy. 20 % d'conomis par rapport l'achat spar des abonnements. You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident. 1 mois de voyages illimits. Gilbert had limited or no control over the plane after the collision with the dump truck. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). He was concerned about their work and I recall hearing the CVR on this one years ago, a difficult one in its last monent, still huants me to this day, very sad. At that point, the right main gear lifted off the One of my concerns with the article prior to the 12/4 revision is that it stated Gilbert saw the truck and then said "Jesus Christ!". The CVR has been widely available for years. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Our large helicopter section. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft This is not a touchdown this is the aircraft being destroyed. (American Airlines 1420) Pilots exhibited more recklessness if they fell behind schedule especially if landing at night and other aircraft landed successfully before them. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, 20 minutes before the accident a 727 from Mexicana airlines landed normally on 23R using the "same procedure which the Western aircraft was instructed to follow". This contributor has read transcripts that start at and include the first signifigant contacts in Mexican airspace but I do not have access to the entire CVR which presumably is near 3 hours in length. ed the knowledge to deal with the human aspect identified per night. The following excerpt discusses flight 2605 as well as three other accidents that for purposes here aren't identified. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. general avtation will probably have to wait a long time. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests, RE: Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79. ", "The first officer didn't do his job and the Captain didn't make him", "ALPA's reasoning seems to be that a certain sloppiness is inevitable in airline crews flying late-night flights. The May 25, 1979 American Airlines DC-10 crash involved the separation of the left engine from the left wing and the shredding of hydraulic lines with it. It should be mentioned (perhaps in the main article) that if 2605 had somehow landed "properly" on the "wrong" runway 23L, the accident probably wouldn't have happened. sition to the parallel operating runway at an airport with a Les rgles de l'aviation de base dcouragent de longues priodes de dur tirer vers le haut. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners board. There is no official report that we know of that gives any credence to this rumor. More importantly pilot errors occured. The fact that Reichel didn't call out altitude may not have mattered although it was something he was assigned to do but doesn't necessarily mean this caused the accident or that the crew was unaware of their altitude: - unsigned contribution at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40, split out as new para at 20:30 and amended at 20:32 by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contributions), 25 December 2019, The crew sounded wide awake to me. By using the words well known problem, this means historically in the time period of the accident, but also today in 2020, especially when not hand flying in planes more advanced and more automated than the DC-10-10 that Gilbert was hand flying in 1979. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. . 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